Electric radiant ceiling panels do fail, and I've also seen them partially fail. I have the same issue and I dont know what it is but my electric bills are through the roof. And don't confuse radiant versus forced air heat with electric versus gas fuel supply. It's an older system and I'll describe what I learned about it. To save energy, a centrally-heated home (e.g. First of all, your lectures about mean radiant temperatures and comfort are condescending. So if youre sleeping in a second-floor bedroom, you no longer need to cover the cost necessary to keep the unoccupied first-floor at 70 degrees. Is it smart to still consider anything other than heat pump system ?? I live in a house with radiant ceiling heat in VT. You must be a magazine subscriber to access this feature. (But ductless heat pumps sure could change it up!). 1970's retro fit rear car window heater built in, thick visible tracks) are fragile and easily damaged. It is, like all electric resistance heat baseboards, fan-forced wall heaters, electric furnaces 100 percent efficient in converting electricity into heat. However, there was no voltage on the other grid lead. It's an older system and I'll describe what I learned about it. I figured out what the Single Pole LR10499 22A-120/v240;18A-277VAC means. I did the work myself, because this is a very simple circuit. We use the bathroom zone in the winter but otherwise we keep it at 50 degrees and heat with wood. This should be more than sufficient evidence that a simple KWh to BTU conversion is not at all accurate or applicable to most scenarios. Dec 9, 2011. Here's another study involving radiant ceiling panels: Last Post 03 Feb 2009 06:25 PM by walltech. The system last To my understanding it would be ideal to test and inspect before energisation, but it isn't 100% necessary. Products. Articles may contain affiliate links which enable us to share in the revenue of any purchases made. 215 Year Old House - Wide Board Attic Refinishing. Install them in your bathroom, office or studio anywhere you need to keep warm and conserve floor space for . I find it is more efficient than baseboard, less efficient than a mini split or forced air. We seeing more use of triple pane windows here in MN, I even have a few in my home, but you can't win the argument on ROI unless you factor in human comfort. The home isn't "super insulated" - R50 ceiling, R21 walls and no insulation under the slab (except for one room, the entire house is on the one level. Is it laid atop the drywall in some kind of grid? Though settings could be somewhat lower for other folks as we like to wear not much more than light clothes and everybody is bare feet. I have never seen it installed between two layers of drywall before tho. The heating working great, I just want a digital thermostat put in. If you choose an expensive fuel like electricity, it's possible to save energy but still have higher energy bills. Never did much to try and repair the cuts knowing how difficult it would be to find them. 2023 The Taunton Press, Inc. All rights reserved. in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net, Reply to Ceiling heating1970's? resistance heating is resistance heating ..the difference in heat distribution might affect how people setup thermostat and the total energy use ..but unltimately not by much. Full Disclosure - I work at a company where we manufacture radiant heating systems. How is the electric service run to the grid? Thanks to haulbrookdf for your comment as well. In one, we used sheetrock that had heating coils embedded about 6 inches apart lengthwise. Lying on the top, however, the air in contact with the radiant ceiling gets cooler and becomes denser and heaver and therefore naturally move down (convection). Is this actually a concern? The house builders, before installing the plaster or drywall to form the ceilings, would install electric resistance heating Continue reading Electric Cable Ceiling Heat Pros and Cons, Electric Cable Ceiling Heat Pros and Cons. If someone is walking from room to room in a cold house, it's hard to come up with a control system for your method of heating. The complete source for building, designing, and remodeling green homes. Stat in each room. This year we decided to try to bear it and have set it at 61. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for pair of vintage NOS 1970 Aubrey 7312 surface mount ceiling heater at the best online prices at eBay! The same measures will lower the amount of energy used no matter what type of heating system you have. With hydronic radiant ceiling systems, your space is heated and cooled more efficiently, bringing comfort to all occupants. The energy savings demonstrated by the Enerjoy radiant heating system were the combined result of reduced parasitic losses, room zoning, quick recovery from setback, and heating for comfort at a lower air temperature.". Sorry, Martin, but there are plenty of studies out there. So, it will cost you a lot of money to get it installed by a professional. . 1990). They sent electricians to splice the wires but no go. Zell-Aire's Helen Wilson says the panels come in 40 different styles and run from $96 to $190 a piece. Only when the boiler and distribution plumbing are in uninsulated unconditioned space does that loss add up to much. waste of time ?? I need to replace my thermostats, as they don't really seem to shut off the heat. Space heaters work in the smaller rooms, but not in the living room/dining room, which has a 14' ceiling. Sure enough, the wire was cut from above and you couldn't see the break from below. The house was built in 1954 and we had the original furnace replaced 2 years ago. thanks thanks. It works fabulously. Can the ceiling panels be repaired (some are cracked and sagging) as drywall would be? Since we have already exceeded building code and comfort expectations with a well insulated house and argon filled thermal pane windows, everything added subtracts from ROI and diminishing returns are the only guarantee. I'm really not trying to start a Riversong battle -- just trying to shed some light where you are misinformed. Use HAV system now. means that radiant heating systems increase the mean radiant temperature (MRT; average room surface temperature) to which occupants are exposed, thereby allowing comfort at lower Kick the 'stat back to the mid-60's - who needs a hot bedroom? A hot-water baseboard or radiator system, in comparison, runs with a water temperature of 160-210 degrees. In these experimental efforts, the principles of radiant heating were often aligned with solar power. One wire is connected to the thermostat. A radiant ceiling has the minimal heat resistance of 5/8" sheet rock, while floors can have significant resistance to overcome with flooring goods and furniture. One crack at the end of the hallway is quite large. Many interesting posts enjoying the debate. Today, innovative systems allow homeowners to target different temperatures for different parts of the home. Are you a distributor? In an effort to improve upon radiators and space heaters, radiant ceiling heat was designed to provide consistent, even warmth. . The 3 ways are at each side of the garage at the 2 Hi In other words, you can insulate every wall and plug every air leak, but if your heating system consumes a relatively large amount of energy in the effort to reach and maintain a comfortable indoor temperature, youre inevitably going to be stuck with sizable month-to-month utility bills. Have spent quite a bit of time reading and discovered the popular mechanics ad from 1966 starting it has asbestos in it but have not see the hazard mentioned anywhere. I look into my electrical cabinet and wondering what are the reasons or when to consider some upgrades. Periodic Inspection Reporting & Certification. Maybe you didn't intend to do so, but this is what you wrote. https://www.pmmag.com/ext/resources/PM/2014/June/016-020-0614-Siggy.pdf, Two other pieces to be taken with a grain of salt since it's from a manufacturer/dealer, but still useful (under 5 minute read each): I have replaced the original thermostat twice, and each time, it seems like the thermostat is not functioning properly, that is, the heating element gets "stuck," and doesn't turn off, even though it is much warmer in the room than the thermostat is set at. Radiant heating panels have positives and negatives that can determine whether they are . It has the ceiling tape heat in every room. Clearly you are confusing radiant heat (electric heat under tile floors) with electric resistance heating by lumping them all in the same category. fire-rated gypsum wallboard. The inspector can tell you who the manufacturer was - we just went through a home inspection when we purchased our house with radiant ceiling heating. Last year (2022) we filled Jan, Mar, May & Sept and we live on the Massachusetts coast. Looks like it's for trades though. air to air heat pumps and waste oil systems in all of N.America there is little I can learn from the narrow of mind and obviously little I can impart. Please help.. thank you in advance.. Do I need to do anything special to paint my ceiling that has radiant heat? If you want steady, even heat in your home, one option is to forego traditional systems in favor of radiant heat. I have others, of course, but only in a pdf format. Hi, my home was built in 1966, and I have ceiling radiant heat. Some people prefer hot feet -- some people prefer a hot head. With radiant ceilings and floors comfort is achieved at a lower room temp, which can reduce the amount of fuel used by a few percent. You act as if people are concocting magic when they discuss radiant heat but standing in the sun on a cold day should provide ample evidence that radiant heat is fundamentally different from heating the air, and the fact is this method of heat transfer to the human body is fairly efficient. Distribution is only a matter of planning. Broadly similar products exist on the market, but Warmboard stands alone in terms of efficiency and conductivity. In an attempt to repair it I found 3 cut wires. Today, it works as well as any other traditional system, if not better, and operates at least 25 percent more efficiently than forced-air systems, the most ubiquitous type of heating in the United States. Patrick, Radiant Floor Heat (all 3 levels),(2) Central HVAC units (heat & cool). Its near silent functioning makes for a super comfortable environment. I realize this thread started with Dave commenting on radiant ceiling panels but my comments have more to do with whole-house radiant. If an `incorrect` 120V(single pole) thermo was installed, but not wired correctly, it could allow continuity thru the heat elements hence still heating BUT the contacts WOULD NOT WELD TOGETHER!!!! Steve Kilbride, what do you pay for a KWH along with location and heating degree days? My 1968 ranch style house was built with electric radiant heat in the ceiling. Sie knnen nicht notwendige Cookies ber Einstellungen verwalten ablehnen. thanks. The simplest was the fireback, a decorated slab of cast iron placed at the rear of the firebox to retain and radiate heat. ( i don't see how it would change anythign beyond +-5% ). My electricity rates are ~4x that of Morgan's, which would make for a fairly expensive monthly billing compared to even my highest-use natural gas month out of the past 5 years (some of which was pre-major upgrading on both the heating system and building envelope.). The very first radiant heating systems emerged in the Roman Empire. Last season we set it to 68 and left it all season Nov-March. However I'd be happy to go into greater detail at another time, perhaps in another topic area that is more appropriate. (We have this type of heat in another home we have and I am always cold there. Fix cracks and skim coat entire ceiling. Concealed, Quiet System If you like to keep your home looking aesthetic and visually appealing, this heating system can be a great choice. In a well insulated home with the proper number of panels per the home heat loss . Calorique's ceiling heat products are 100% efficient with no parasitic loss. Price Diffusers has a nice design guideline for using radiant ceiling panels on thier web site. I recently created a new circuit for an electric oven at my friend's Smart Heating System - Heatmiser or other? Our house was built in 1985 and we had friends who had one about 1975 with the same heat, they loved it too! So lets assume that without current light drafts in the house due to a few current problems Electrical Safety Advice | ElectriciansForums.net. There's a 4" electric junction box on each 2x4 with wires coming/going. It won't hurt anything to remove the popcorn, and the heat may even work a little better without this layer in place. Ontario Hydro has warned homeowners that Flex-Heat electric radiant ceiling heating, installed in the late 1970's, is dangerous and that the system can fail without warning and may become a fire hazard. Then came 1907 and a British professor named A.H. Barker came up with the first real radiant heating system, the "radiant panel," which used a large surface like a floor or ceiling to radiate heat into a building's living space. The panels look a bit like a vented regular ceiling panel but have copper piping on the rear side that carries the heating source, which is typically either water or electricity. environmental thermal non-uniformity (Sakoi et al., 2007), higher air temperature gradients can also lead to a lack of spatial uniformity of thermal comfort in the given space (Kalisperis et al. A/C 15 SEER Heil heatpump system installed in attic with 95% efficient LP furnace with variable speed and 2 stage blower and 16 SEER A/C only condensor. I beleive this will make the existing heating less effective and I am also worried about screwing into the ceiling as mentioned earlier. These differences cause some owners to be dissatisfied with the overall operation of the system. Heat loss plays a huge role in how long the heat will last on your radiant ceiling heat. Mechanicals: Natural Gas Equipment. Put simply, Warmboard requires the least amount of energy of any radiant system to maintain a comfortable temperature in the home. I beg to differ, Robert. Perhaps better than a carpeted radiant floor hot rod I have electric ceiling heat installed in the 1970s. Can anyone suggest a thermostat that works with the in ceiling closed loop radiant heat? Floors are comfortable due to that heat from the ceilings below. Heating, Cooling & Air; Heating & Cooling Appliances; Space Heaters; Share | . They dissipate energy fast as well. heating systems (Hart, 1981; Zmeureanu et al., 1988) which is not favorable since air infiltration rate in a building is one of the significant factors affecting energy use and comfort (DeWerth and Loria, The only problem now was the concrete. 2. I have a new home and it has radiant heat in ceiling that goes back to the 1950's and has black pipe as coils. An average room can take up to 2 panels for sufficient heating. It is NOT all about heating air. In this type of system, heat arrives, not via vents or standalone units, but from panels under the floor. -Patrick Beebe-Sweet, MBA in Green Construction. This system must be disconnected immediately if it hasn't already. David, Therefore, the bedrooms upstairs benefit from the heat on the first floor. The splices where only a 1/4" long, we dug out the plasterboard a little and replastered right over the splice. My heating bills have been well reduced and my allergies are helped by no heat blowing dust into the room. I am sorry this feels condescending to you, but the way you put down anyone who tries to explain radiant heat to you comes off as condescending and uninformed. Good luck to everyone and stay warm!! One of the styrofoam tiles fell out and it apears that the popcorn ceiling is covering the heating elements. I apologize for sounding preachy but it might help if you check out this book: http://www.pexsupply.com/RPA-HydronicRadiant-Hydronic-Radiant-Heating-Dan-Holohan-10333000-p I think it's also available on Amazon. Different systems have differing system-efficiencies- with differing fractions of distribution loss. It is one of the most efficient ways to heat your home and could possibly save you as much as twenty percent on your energy costs. Our only concern is that it has radiant ceiling heat. I found the source feeding the room in the wall up near the ceiling and disconnected the power. It has been like this for several years. A worst-case hot air system could be running under 50% net efficiency due to high air-handler-driven infiltration. Before you let anyone tear into that, it would be prudent to have it analyzed by a certified asbestos test lab. Baseboards have a High Surface Temperature. Still have continuity and 30 minutes later the room is nice and warm. Great to see posts about homes built in the late 60's - 70's that used radiant ceiling heat. Of course, Wright was ahead of his time in more ways than one, so it was not until decades after his death that radiant heat finally came into focus. Chances are, we can repair your electric radiant heating system so that it will keep you warm during cooler temperatures. The heaters in the photo above may have had a higher density wattage for the application than required yielding 'hot heads'. While the origins of radiant floor heating stretch way back into the mists of history, the technology has come of age only in recent years. of well insulated living space last month (December) for less than $100.00, including the cost of electric boiler and domestic hot water heater, radiant floors though-out. Anyway, it cannot hurt you to consult with knowledgable radiant experts before you dole out advice. Every room has its own thermostat and dedicated circuits All rooms used or a few not? ( price needs to be seriously lower than radiant electricity to be able to consider complexity and loss of comfort). I dont think so anymore unless someone can come up with something with similar COP and simpler installation. This article has been brought to you by Warmboard. In an era when energy costs were not so prohibitively high, it might have been fine to install an all-or-nothing system, one that offered no compromise between the off setting and full-throttle operation. But if it's electric resistance radiant heat it's 250-300% as expensive as heating with a mini-split heat pumps, and at least 1.5-2x as expensive as heating with non-modulating ducted heat pumps. Does that sound realistic? Broan 157 1250W Electric Radiant Ceiling Heater Surface Mount . On the bottom of page 5 you will see that it says "Buildings with hydronic heating systems have consistently shown lower heating energy use than equivalent structures with forced-air heating systems.". I agree with you David - sort of. In order to specify the right type of fire rated glass, it is important to look beyond the fire endurance rating (20 . Numerous researches on radiant heating systems have followed then, mostly evaluating the advantages and disadvantages of this type of heating system and comparing with the traditional I just wasn't sure whether the popcorn ceiling would be fiddled with as part of what you want to do now. She is a fire fighter and a paramedic. The panels conduct heat so effectively that they can be used beneath any type of flooring, be it tile, hardwood, or even thick-pile carpeting. In the older form, electric heating elements are sandwiched between a layer of drywall and a layer of plaster. Seven years or so ago we had a remodel done and our kitchen and bath wires were inadvertently cut. I checked out a building yesterday that had heating mats like this one installed in four areas. Let dry for a couple days before you use the heat. Very stable with 5" concrete on steel deck slabs Ceiling heat from 1964 in Maryland. Its facts and opinions are those of BobVila.com. A well insulated room that utilizes radiant heating systems can save money over a gas system if used and designed properly. Engineered Hardwoods - Navigating all the brands. who is good? I put them behind the mirror in our master bath but we don't use them much because the walls are warm (good insulation) and the bath fan gets rid of the steam from the shower. We had zan oil stove downstairs that helped keep electricity cost down. See Heating Solutions for a Colonial Revival Addition. From some work I've done on another area, it seems that each panel is powered individually from the rooms thermostat. This research area is currently underway as a multi-project research area. Prestige boiler for in floor heat and ceiling vented heat. In the end, you can save serious money on home heating by choosing any radiant system, but among all manufacturers offering radiant products, Warmboard can save you the most. All answers were no and i wouldn't hold him responsible if anything happened. In winter, this situation is reversed with your warm indoor air moving through the plasterboard and outside of the home. There are 2 companies in my area that specialize in repairing that stuff. At no point have I ever confused electric radiant ceiling panels with electric resistance baseboards -- I know the difference. JavaScript is disabled. Houzz nutzt Cookies und hnliche Technologien, um Ihre Benutzererfahrung zu personalisieren, Ihnen relevante Inhalte bereitzustellen und die Produkte und Dienstleistungen zu verbessern. We are very happy with the radiant system. We filled the tank in September and I checked it this morning and we are at just above 1/2 tank! Obviously its electrical resistance heat, and theres an attic above so theres doubtless some loss into the attic, but these definitely make you feel warm, because your head is so close to the heat source. But even a gas-burning 50%-er would not make electric radiant mats a more cost-effective solution in most markets. temperatures. Had heater repair man in to put in thermostat and he said it cant be done. I also love the individual thermostats in each room. The most practical thing for homeowner is to use radiant heaters to heat the ceiling mounts. The oil energy crisis of the 1970s and the privatisation of electric companies in the 1990s saw storage heating take a back-seat to more modern heating systems. You are using an out of date browser. When we replaced the furnace, we added digital thermostats with no issues in all 3 zones. Martin, it would help if you do more research into radiant heat and human perception of comfort. The main hall, where the seating areas are, is heated via forced air. She was concerned because houses the age of mine that is have caught fire in th ceiling. Erfahren Sie hierzu mehr in der Houzz Cookie-Richtlinie. I'm new to this but stuck with an issue, so I'm looking for some help wherever possible. Some small, some larger, that when added together tip the scales hugely in favor of radiant heat. When the delivery systems are similar a BTU is a BTU. It should cost less than $100. A collection of one thousand construction details organized by climate and house part. ( electrical,wire is buried at the bottom, would preferred a mid slab but it was to complex to install that way). Certainly, there are aesthetic advantages to a heating system that does not force you to decorate around bulky radiators or wall-hugging baseboards. ( just received my bill ;) 2- what are you talking about there ?? Free shipping for many products! Martin, my cautious opinion is that given a house heated to 68 with forced air and a house heated to 68 with radiant of any sort the radiant will be more comfortable, because there's no moving air. Anyway it's fortunate nobody was hurt, and fortunate the firefighter response was so fast, and fortunate they have good homeowners' insurance. If I recall it was fed on the onpeak side of E7,and available 24hrs. It's ~4,000 sq. They say a heat pump is good for heat in temperature down to 20 Fahrenheit, but I have had them for years, recently replacing old with newer and very high efficiency, and it's still the same temperature range. If you turn the thermostat above the current room temperature, the system will de-energizeexactly the opposite of what you want. Copyright 2023 Acton Media Inc. All rights reserved. That worked fine for supplemental heat, but it could not heat a whole house through the winter season. I live in central Ohio and live in a home that was built in 1974 and has radiant ceiling heat. ), I ve personally visited a housenwith ceiling radiant panels, andi didnt like it A person with forced air will turn the stat up a little more to achieve the same level of comfort, using more energy. Project Objective. The wires down to the thermostat are small (like standard thermostat wire), while the lines from the service panel to the box on the 2x4 in the attic are substantially larger. Reversing the wires doesn't do anything. The ceiling had to be replaced and it originally had a cement board on it. By Michael Franco Updated Jul 25, 2017 4:13 PM. i want a new thermostat so this discussion help me deside maybe my son in law can not be the one to put the thermostat in. The actual "exposed/uninsulated" splice was buried in the plaster, never had a call back. Radiant heat is energy-efficient and can help you save up to 15% on heating bills as the system itself is so efficient. 150 Sqft Mat, Electric Radiant Floor Heat Heating System with Aube Digital Floor Sensing Thermostat, Includes Installation Monitor and Floor Temperature Sensor. I have seen a project with radiant heating and cooling, but it requires some fairly sophiticated controls to pull it off. My spouse died 9 years ago so I rely on others to help me with their opinions. The answer, Warmboard found, was to combine hydronic tubing with lightweight, highly conductive aluminum. Your $500 would be impossible for me at 16 cents a KWH and I have just under 2000 sqft. We just bought a condo that was built in 1984. it has ceiling radiant heat and a popcorn finish. In part, radiant excels in efficiency because, unlike forced-air systems with imperfect ductwork,the former isnt vulnerable to heat loss. A really good grade of paint. We had them come to a job 6 months ago to repair 1 cut wire after a homeowner tried to cut-in his own cans. Hell nothing else than electricity is even available here and i am less than 1 hour from montreal. Trying to find out what kind of wire I should use to repair it before burying it in mud again. Ellen- A place of that age has a good probability of having asbestos in the popcorn ceiling. They now claim no responsibility so trying to replace it ourselves with something different. The lines leading to and from the grid had no continuity, so I began to suspect a broken wire somewhere in the grid. Be cautious around the Thermalux ceiling heat system. I have no idea what sort of ceiling heat is being discussed, but when I lived in Colorado in the mid-70s, I worked for a contractor during the winter building expensive custom houses. Comparing both radiant-type and convective-type in-space heaters showed that using the radiant-type saved more than its counterpart, i.e. Do some research on how the systems work. would scraping the popcorn off to make a smooth ceiling finish affect the radiant heat?. I agree with your first statement, but it is contradicted by the second. Depending on gas and electric prices a gas furnace is likely much cheaper to run than an electric furnace, and a gas boiler is likely much cheaper to run than an electric boiler for hydronic radiant. ( still feels 10 times less air movement that in our prior central heated house ) It was just this winter we began to have some problems with our heating in the basement. It's very comfortable and maintenance-free. If it leaves a client without power Hi everyone, I would also add the US Dept. Most have an operating window of 10 degrees Fahrenheit, starting 5 degrees Fahrenheit below the set temperature and heating to 5 degrees Fahrenheit . Radiant ceiling heat comes in two main forms.
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